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View Full Version : Anyone know how the AutoOP NightTime (nao) maps were made on TFC?



Terrum
26th September 2018, 12:07 AM
For anyone out there that may still use this from the early 20s, or miraculously knows of such in this current age, does anyone know how the AutoOP NightTime (nao) maps were actually made?


I'm working on a new TFC server which features these maps (nao_hunted and nao_2fort are currently the only working maps I can find). There's a nao_dustbowl and nao_badlands but these are non-working or, bizarrely, with all entities removed.


For anyone that wants to try help but has no idea what I'm even talking about, AutoOP NightTime (nao) is simply a night time version of an official map with all lights removed and replaced with colourful ones.


So I guess the best way to ask this question is, how do I properly edit (or decompile) a BSP (or through use of amx-plugins/stripper2) so that I can achieve making my own 'nao' versions of official, pre-compiled maps?


Many thanks for any help!

RoboCop
26th September 2018, 04:54 PM
Terrum...that nick rings a bell since I was working as admin in Jolt TFC! Well no, not really saddly. But we have a couple of members who are mappers who may know about this stuff. I take those nao maps use night SkyBoxes as well?

I could ask on how to recompile maps with the night materials required and wads needed...

Also if those maps you are making are like night clones of stockmaps but no changes to the map paths, I can create the waypoints needed.

Terrum
26th September 2018, 05:34 PM
I've been on and off TFC the last 20 years or so :) I was probably too young to be considered part of the 'dial-up' days, but say since 2005 onwards I've been working on TFC throughout with servers up since!

Anyway, it would be amazing to know if you have any mappers that can offer advice! Really appreciate it :)

Yes the 'nao' maps would use night skyboxes too, although from past experience, I think this is as easy as just using some HEX editor (or BSPEdit) to edit the entity which spawns/handles the skybox texture.

RoboCop
26th September 2018, 05:37 PM
Also Kent eh, well I had a step-brother from Maidstone until he had a brain tumour...and didn't make it in 2009...Even he liked TFC in a mad wacky manner blowing up enemies into gibs.

Antnommer
26th September 2018, 06:19 PM
Can you share those nao_ maps you have? I have hunted, 2fort, and well, and another night-time version of hunted that's just called "night.bsp". I've uploaded them here (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fv925ahaqa9pf97/nao_maps.zip/file).

As for how the maps were made, they probably used a tool like Zoner's RipEnt (http://carlfoust.tripod.com/ripent/ripent.html). It's pretty easy to do, just takes some trial and error to figure out what entities are where in the level. I think the latest version of Zoner's tools is 253.

Terrum
27th September 2018, 05:45 PM
Also Kent eh, well I had a step-brother from Maidstone until he had a brain tumour...and didn't make it in 2009...Even he liked TFC in a mad wacky manner blowing up enemies into gibs.
Shoot, sorry to hear that! I vaguely remember some work colleague from Maidstone passing away due to bowel cancer, strange but small world! :(


Can you share those nao_ maps you have? I have hunted, 2fort, and well, and another night-time version of hunted that's just called "night.bsp". I've uploaded them here (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fv925ahaqa9pf97/nao_maps.zip/file).

As for how the maps were made, they probably used a tool like Zoner's RipEnt (http://carlfoust.tripod.com/ripent/ripent.html). It's pretty easy to do, just takes some trial and error to figure out what entities are where in the level. I think the latest version of Zoner's tools is 253.
The nao maps are still widely available (They're even on apg-clan's fast dl: http://apg-clan.org/fastdl/tfc/maps ).

The ones that work are the ones you have provided in your download ('nao_2fort.bsp', 'nao_hunted.bsp', 'nao_well.bsp'). The ones that don't work are 'nao_badlands.bsp' and 'nao_dustbowl.bsp' which have no entities at all on any of the maps, apart from some lights here or there.

2fort doesn't have any 'light' entities and the nao_2fort has tons of 'light' entities, so I don't think it was a simple entity edit now (could be wrong, I'll have to find out and let you know!)

Thanks so much for the information thus far, though! :)

Antnommer
27th September 2018, 07:43 PM
Oh, didn't think to look on the fast dl. You hadn't mentioned well and I already had those maps zipped, so I thought I'd just post them. :P

I noticed there are two of each on the fast dl for badlands and dustbowl. I checked nao_badlands.bsp and nao_badlands_.bsp and they seem to be the same, and both spawn me in the air over a canyon with nothing to do. nao_dustbowl.bsp does seem to work, as I spawned in the right room and was able to find backpacks while wandering the map. nao_dustbowl_.bsp (note the trailing underscore) did not seem to work right, as it also spawned me in the air in the middle of the map. Another thing I noticed is that the working Dustbowl had only red and blue teams, while the non-working one (as well as both Badlands) had all four teams.

Terrum
27th September 2018, 08:45 PM
Bizarrely, I didn't think to try the ones with the underscore! As a matter of fact, I didn't think to try the ones on the fast DL at all (I just thought it would be the same!). But after replacing my nao_dustbowl with the one from the fast DL, you're right - it's actually a working version, and it's a really good version at that! Thank you so much :) Saves me a lot of time!

Although the question remains how on earth one would add entities to an already compiled BSP like the original makers did. It really would be interesting to find out how they added entities, as I used the ripent software you mentioned in your previous post and opened the file in notepad, and it didn't show any 'light' entities, so it definitely isn't related to simply editing the existing entities (unfortunately).

RoboCop
27th September 2018, 09:11 PM
Well I don't know but I use VHE 3.5.3 for enhancing the maps by adding the bumpmap textures for the TFC stock maps which I've made here:-

https://apg-clan.org/vbdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1112

Also well to be honest Maidstone Hospital wasn't as hygienic as it was supposed to be in the 2000s, as my brother TVS had to be allocated near Kempston with the best cancer docs. But TVS didn't survive and was cremated in Margate...

Antnommer
27th September 2018, 09:15 PM
Looking again at the RipEnt site, I saw this: "You may add new point-based entities onto the end of the file as you need them." A light would be a point-based entity, so I think it may actually be possible to add lights. I'd have to mess with it to be sure.

Further following that thought, you could potentially fix the Badlands map by extracting the original map's entities, and replacing the ones in the nao_ version. Or just making a copy of the original map and then editing those entities, I guess.

Terrum
27th September 2018, 09:28 PM
RoboCop, as a wonderful developer of the FoxBot plugin, would you have any idea how to copy over the waypoints from one map to another? You can probably tell what I'm trying to do - but just incase, I want to copy dustbowl.fwp to nao_dustbowl.fwp (I checked the BSP files for both maps and all the entities I checked have the same XYZ coordinates) so I could just copy the waypoints from the original dustbowl onto the nao_dustbowl - thus saving even more time! :)

Amazing to know that I can add new point-based entities, and the idea of copying the entities from the old map and adding it to the nao one is also a great idea! I'll have to keep all these in mind :) Will start experimenting ASAP and update you both accordingly! Thank you so much for all your help, both!

Terrum
27th September 2018, 10:00 PM
Antnommer, you are an absolute genius!

I used ripent to export the entities from badlands, I changed the skybox to 'space' in the generated badlands.ent file, and simply reimported that ent file into the nao_badlands.bsp. It works an absolute charm now! I'm now playing on nao_badlands with working spawns, ents, and everything! :) Can't thank you enough!

Although there's some parts of the badlands map that's just completely missing light (and even in nao_2fort the bases are missing some light too).

I was thinking of adding some 'light' entities through ripent but then I realised any of the 'light' entities that are on the map aren't actually visible or being used.

I think the RAD settings used when the BSP files were originally compiled were set to ignore the 'light' entities. It seems to be using its own form of light mapping? Because if you look at this screenshot https://i.imgur.com/azvNbmU.jpg you can see plenty of lighting, but no entities to match them (this is from the original/broken nao_badlands.bsp file).

I think I'm just going to have to use stripper2 to add any missing lighting :D Unless you can suggest something else?

RoboCop
27th September 2018, 10:31 PM
There is, as I had to use NotePad++ for baconbowl_r as baconbowl.fwp was only found in the original FoxBot 0.77 zip. But I had to add some teleport and some key rocket/conc jump points as well.

Open dustbowl.fwp in NotePad++ and search for "dustbowl" in the Search and replace it as "nao_dustbowl". But I appreciate it if we kept as many new waypoints and area files preserved. So to save any hassle and bother I've already done nao_dustbowl.fwp as well as nao_badlands.fwp. Check the zip file from this link as I've just updated it:-

https://apg-clan.org/vbdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=980

Terrum
27th September 2018, 11:14 PM
RoboCop, I really appreciate everything you have done :) Unfortunately the waypoints don't appear to be working. I couldn't see any of the waypoints on nao_dustbowl no matter where I searched, on nao_badlands it was very obvious because it seemed most of the waypoints spawned right on the 'info_player_start' entity! And lots of others in a line next to it: https://youtu.be/MPd81cFuiFg

I'm not sure what happened, but I was hoping you had an idea or could figure out what it is, because I can almost guarantee the original badlands waypoints weren't all bunched up and in a line! :D

Speaking of preserving files, I've got plenty of waypoints my end that were either created by me or a friend. I'm more than happy to give them to you if you wish to add them to the pack and contribute to your preservation :) Completely up to you! Just consider it a thanks for all the amazing help! http://terrum.co.uk/uploads/1538172388.zip

1538172388.zip contains:
2fort_v_well.fwp
4fortsniper.fwp
4fortsniper_esc.fwp
aa_snipe.fwp
aasnp.fwp
dub_snipe.fwp
ejg2_hunted.fwp
ftw_snipe_v.fwp
kabooli.fwp
krazy_snipe.fwp
machinations_r.fwp
mulch_die.fwp
-paintball_sniper-.fwp
saharasniper.fwp
smear_the_queer.fwp
snipahzrule.fwp
sniper_office.fwp
snipr_cali.fwp
zutalors_b1.fwp

RoboCop
28th September 2018, 03:43 PM
Darn that sucks maybe those new waypoints I've converted failed...

Terrum
28th September 2018, 08:31 PM
I just ended up drafting some messy waypoints so the bots can walk to the battlements, at least. Once I have more time I will make better waypoints and share them here :) That is, of course, unless you can fix the good waypoints to work with the nao maps.

In the meantime I'm eagerly awaiting for Antnommer's help with the lighting query I have :)

RoboCop
28th September 2018, 09:44 PM
Also may I suggest you join our [APG] Discord as Antnommer hangs around in there? Look at the Nav Bar for Discord or the Top Left Column.

Terrum
29th September 2018, 12:10 AM
Sounds good! I've joined it now :)

Antnommer
29th September 2018, 07:22 PM
I honestly don't know. I haven't done any mapping in GoldSrc in a long time, so I don't remember what other methods there are for generating light. It seems there are quite a few (https://gamebanana.com/tuts/11936), and it suggests they may actually have decompiled the map to modify it. I don't remember if there's a program that can modify texture data like how RipEnt can modify entities, but that's another possibility, especially if you compare the lit areas in the nao_ version to the original.

Terrum
29th September 2018, 07:40 PM
No worries, thanks a lot! :) I'll have to use stripper2 to add some lights.